Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

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Is Spamming a skill?

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Zephron© on Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:41 pm

No religous refrences, Beight. I am Christian Razz

No hard feelings, but dont do it again.

Anywho, I agree that spamming takes no skill, but my point is that people shouldnt comlain about it. And you still do Q.Q What did I say that didnt click?

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Holy Sapphire on Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:16 pm

Spamming as skill... Well possibly... I've seen, and I myself will repeat moves knowing that you're gonna get hit by it. As far standing in a corner and useing the same move for like 2 mins... Well.. no I dont think thats skill lol

What I really call spamming is desperation. If you're in that fix where you're either gonna win or lose, or ready to kill off an opponet I've seen more often than not the same move pop out ten times in a row. I really started calling it desperation when I saw my friend go into sudden death with his Gannondorf in a SSBM tourny years ago. He continuously spammed downb until his opponet got hit by it. He was literaly just going back and forth across the stage. When the opponet complained he was spamming my friend just said "It's not my fault you fell for it."
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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Rei on Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:27 pm

Holy Sapphire wrote: When the opponet complained he was spamming my friend just said "It's not my fault you fell for it."

Lol I hate it when people say that. XP

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Beigt. on Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:59 pm

Sorry Zephron. But a lot of christians do annoy me (your not one of them!) but mostly the ones that go to our Mall Church.. big headed, better than you, and most of time fake, people. :"/

and I didn't mean to make it sound like I was complaining about spamming. Cuz I don't mind it. Sure it can be annoying but if it works and you win then....*shrug* Yeah, more power to you. You were talking to me on that one right, Zephron?
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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Zephron© on Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:04 pm

Not specifically you. Just in general how its annoying how common the "Spammer! You have no skillz!" Answer is. You dont really spam... We're pretty much equal in that regard. I hope O.o

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Rykoshet on Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:06 pm

Somebody is thinking awfully highly of theirself. I'm just stickin to what I said because your a bit too much of the "all knowing" (kinda like a christian) type for my tastes and I don't really wanna waste my time trying to argue/debate with a wall, basically.

You havent, for a second, even ONCE bothered to bring up a point that didn't rely on people taking your word at face value. The second anyone remotely disagrees with you you come up with dumb non-sequiturs like "It's your fault" as if it matters whose fault something is and then come up with what is essentially a cop-out. I grew up in the church for 18 years so I know full well the attitude you're talking about, and you know what that attitude also encompasses? People going "y'know what, you're right whatever" when they couldn't respond to simple questions regarding things like contradictions in the bible or even just rhetorical questions like "are people who are genuinely ignorant of God doomed to hell?", an attitude you've pretty much huddled behind after the second time I even bothered to disagree with you on something.

Getting off of the side note, stop projecting and understand that I am not beyond accepting a point opposing mine if someone bothers to come up with something that makes sense. Spamming is far beyond choosing the "Same 2 moves" that follow up eachother in a specific situation. Indiscriminate projectile use is considered spam, spaced short hopped fast released arrows after a dodged/or connected neutral air (Watch up to 0:13 for an example) to keep someone spaced out, however, is just good play. ZSS's stun gun to upwards whip spike at worst can be considered a crutch, in the same way that marth's down tilt, sword dance, fair, and front smash can be considered as much. They link into eachother and are parts of his staple gameplay. It makes as much sense to call the ZSS combo spam as it does to say someone "spammed downairs" if you were goofing off offstage.

Spam doesn't have a purpose, it's filler and is meant to try to get some shots in when out of ideas. Fighting zeph's pit with my crappy marth, he actually made it a very close fight by sticking to me up close, the second he went to the other side of FD and started using arrows, I just used the time to replenish my shield because projectile spam is honestly laughable.
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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Zephron© on Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:27 pm

[quote="Rykoshet"]

Spam doesn't have a purpose, it's filler and is meant to try to get some shots in when out of ideas. Fighting zeph's pit with my crappy marth, he actually made it a very close fight by sticking to me up close, the second he went to the other side of FD and started using arrows, I just used the time to replenish my shield because projectile spam is honestly laughable.

Lol, I was just playing around there. I knew that was pretty bad. By the end I was just like freaking kill me already!!

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Rykoshet on Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:28 pm

Yeah I know you were goofing off lol, but the point I was trying to make was that when you stuck to me up close you actually gave me a lot of trouble, the fight was rather close remember?
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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Zephron© on Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:35 pm

Yeah... I was really suprised I got that far. Do you think I should do that with all my characters more? (Besides Zelda, where I need to be aware of when to be in and out of your face)

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Rykoshet on Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:40 pm

I think a lot of weaving in and out and forcing motion of your opponent where you want them to be (like throwing your boomerang forward instead of up so the only real option on approach is shield dashing or short hopping, both of which can be punished hard) is big. I'm honestly a terrible marth though so I cant say how definitive the result will be.
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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by DragoonBlaze on Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:36 pm

Haha, this debate could go on forever, just don't get into fights because of this, spamming is sometimes a filler in a combo if something goes wrong in one's intentions but spamming is also sometimes a "filler" for the "whole battle". As in repeatedly smashing the same button to keep yourself from getting hurt and to increase damage on your opponent. I know many people who "spam or abuse the character's moves" but the majority I've met are newbies or beginners in Brawling so I can't blame them.

My friend who's about two years younger than me, he came over one day with his mother and asked if he could try brawl. I was like sure and I went easy on him and showed him the basics and stuff. After I finished my tutorial and we played a game, he started "spamming" or "abusing" in this situation. I told him later on after the match not to do that alot because some people might get angry at him for that and it doesn't really help sometimes (Since I broke through "his abusing combo" sometimes). This is an example of someone who "spams" or "abuses" because they're new to the game.

There are also those people who excel at Brawling and are especially, really good but then in that group, some people abuse buttons and "spam". Sometimes they're stated as "good" but if you actually look at it their "spamming" is "good". That's another example of "abusive spammers".

Then again some people are really good and others grow angry because they keep losing. These "losers" then call them names and usually have "spammer" in their vocabulary. This is to bring other gamers gameplaying to a minimum.

This brings us to the conclusion of my point. Some people "spam" not to lose, Some people use the word "spam" to bring others down and some people "spam" because they're new to the game. "Spamming" projectiles with no actual purpose is laughable like Ryko said, I agree with him. They have no point and it is easy to stap the "spamming projectile enemy". "Spamming" up-front close combos give the opponent no choice to counterattack and get away unless you have someone like Marth who could use his Down B to easily counterattack so whoever wins with "spamming up front combos" dont actually win. There are two different types of this: "spamming" and spamming. "Spamming": Repeatedly doing the same act with no purpose, Spamming: Using it as a "filler" for a combo or using it to follow up with a combo but NOT using it repeatedly.
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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Rei on Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:34 pm

Good point Dragoon. I once "spammed" when I began playing melee. Then got tired of seeing myself do the same move. Today Naks and I were talking about wifi and he used this term that fits what I'm about to say. I stopped spamming because I like to play "fancy".Yes, I play fancy meaning I like to you chaining moves. Moves that chain together with Marth are his side-b, down a tilt, forward aerial, and side smash. Don't get me wrong though, I use all of Marth's other moves to. Smile

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Beigt. on Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:38 pm

Yea, if it works then I don't see an actual problem with it.
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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Rei on Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:48 am

Does anyone think chain grabbing is spamming? Personally, I say No! Chain grabbing is an advance technique in my opinion.

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by For$@K3n KnIgHt! on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:11 am

Chain Grabbing Spamming? Heck No! You can easily escape it! For the people who say I spam the F Smash I don't even care others spam too so don't just pick on me!
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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Rei on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:23 am

Lol! Well I've heard a few (not going to mention any names) who think people spam chain grabbing. Zach is always getting yelled at for chain grabbing with Yoshi ,but I don't blame Zach for chain grabbing. It's an Advance Tech.

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Zero on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:47 am

chain grabbing is a technique, you can get out of that with DI anyways.

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Zephron© on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:52 am

Some characters its harder to do than say.... Razz

I wont say its spamming, or unskillful, but it is gosh darn annoying,

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Nakayorz on Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:48 pm

ZSS's "spammable" up+b strings/links are a lot more difficult than it looks. The spacing and timing of successfully doing it varies depending on position and character (this is especially true of the aerial link).(correct me if I'm wrong sapphy) It may look like spamming but it most definitely is not by my definition. I don't consider things to be spam unless it's very very basic to execute with little preparation. (aka a caveman can do it)

Also on another note. spamming a projectile like din's fire is like spamming quickdraw. you're setting yourself up to lose against any competent player that is functional (input loss withstanding).

bottom line is, for me by my definition of spam I think it's fine, and actually makes someone easier to kill because of their scripted patterns. only situation where I'd be annoyed is in extremely laggy wifi rooms and I generally don't stick around in that environment anyway.
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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Rei on Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:15 pm

That's exactly what I meant when I was talking about Marth's moves chaining together. XD Thanx for explaining it for me. Smile I still don't spam them though. Very Happy

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Holy Sapphire on Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:06 pm

Nakayorz wrote:ZSS's "spammable" up+b strings/links are a lot more difficult than it looks. The spacing and timing of successfully doing it varies depending on position and character (this is especially true of the aerial link).(correct me if I'm wrong sapphy) It may look like spamming but it most definitely is not by my definition. I don't consider things to be spam unless it's very very basic to execute with little preparation. (aka a caveman can do it)

It is indeed a very difficult thing to do. Not something you can do whenever you want and definately not something you'll complete once you start it up without practice. At low percent your opponet will break the stun early so you'd have to set up the upB tether quickly, which practically means standing right on top of them faceing the right direction (Faceing the opponet). Do it wrong and you'll either: Miss completely, Hit and not grab with the tether dragging them back down, or hit them, drag them back down, and miss the downA smash for the rest of the combo. At any moment you miss your downA smash your opponet can (and most likely will) DI out of it. Start over lol If you can catch them again at least. As your opponet hits around 80% the stun lasts longer so you can get in two downA smashes before your upB. Easier to set up now as your second downA smash will put you in that position to upB perfectly (If you were spaced right to begin with at least) At around 130% you'll want to stun them twice again and then time your bair to be in sync with the stun release so you'll KO them. I say bair rather than fowardB because if you're on Final Destination (or other awkwardly large stages) forwardB wont KO them.

It took me a good hour at 8 in the morning one day to successfully pull the combo off on a CPU dummy from 0% to KO. I've yet to pull it off against a human from 0% to KO. Closest was one time where I did it on a human who was at around 80% already. Its not something thats spammable in my eyes. Its something you can do once, to one person, then get lucky if you'll ever get to do it to that person again. If you do happen to get caught in it then I say you just met someone who's very dedicated to learning that combo and character, and to me dedication is the complete opposite of spam.
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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by Rei on Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:19 pm

I know what you mean Holy. I have been practicing the "Ken combo" followed up by Drago's up b combo offstage on cpu dummies and I can do easily ,but when the chance comes to use it on a human it never works. I'm still going to keep practicing though. Combo's like what you explained are not to be confused with spamming. Smile

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by RoboFerret on Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:50 pm

In my point of view spamming goes both ways. It's when you repeatedly use a move, and it 'does not work' that it's not skillful. Some people will continuously use a move, and all it does it get them hurt, or do absolutely nothing. If they're using a move repeatedly, but it's generally hitting, they're doing something right. If I'm facing someone, who for some reason always gets hit by Pikachu's thunder, I'm definitely going to use that move over and over until they learn to avoid it. Same goes for any character. It's when the person still uses a move even after his opponent knows how to counter it, that it becomes bad. (And at that point, it's ridiculously easy to win)

Of course there are always situations where a move can be used properly, and effectively. If your opponent puts himself in those situations constantly, that's totally their fault. All you're doing at that point is monopolizing on their mistakes.

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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by DragoonBlaze on Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:48 pm

lol Roboferret, that's what i said, if you combine my posts together, they make a page talking about that, Very Happy XD
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Re: Spamming. Skillfull or Annoying?

Post by GuruKid on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:12 pm

Wow I never noticed this topic until now. Robo's argument can also be mine; spamming is indeed a viable strategy. Although many new players usually resort to spam without purpose when they become desperate, skillful players will spam but have a purpose in using it (from simple approaching to mindgames). If one loses because he can't adapt to the other opponent's attack patterns and counter accordingly, then that player quite frankly deserves the loss.

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