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New twist on an old Question.

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Post by Raimu Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:56 am

Okay, so, ever since the game was announced, there have been countless arguments about which characters should be in Brawl. Most of these opinions weren't based on how they would work in-game and if they'd be fun to play as, but based more on their fan gathering and who was cool.

Well, I'm going to ask you the same question, who would you like to see in a smash bros game? But, theres a catch, you gotta tell me WHY? How are they different from any other character, why are they worth putting in the game, and provide me with a full move-list.

This may become a contest to decide the best suggestion, so, I'll start you guys off with one of mine.

Spoiler:
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Post by petrovich112 Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:12 am

I propose these would be fantastic additions.
Spoiler:


Last edited by petrovich112 on Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Kingdom Come Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:21 am

Kingdom Come wrote:Mewtwo-yes, guess who is back new and improved.B-Psychic.have three seconds or more (depending on your damage) to throw you around including at people.Side B-Glare.he glares at you and your stunned for at least a second (again depending on how much damge youve taken)Down B-Barrier (like pit's shield).Up B-(name tbd) but he flies up in the air and like unleashes his power(with a badass scream) then floats back down to the stage invulnerable

there......

**** deleting my posts.....

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Post by Rei Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:26 am

Kingdom Come wrote:

there......

**** deleting my posts.....

That would be me =). At the request of Raimu, I deleted yours and his post.

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Post by Raimu Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:38 am

Petro, you only did specials, Issaac seems really broken, all I have to do is read "Invaunerable" and "30%" and yea, no. Broke.

Simon just seems like a link clone so far. Without A moves its pretty much impossible to think otherwise.

@ Kingdom-

Wut @_@. Please use your enter button to make lists easier to read. And please do not quote yourself.

So, guys wanna... like... weaknesses, advantages, stuff like that XD? Reason why they can do what other characters don't?
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New twist on an old Question. Empty dont know much about smash bros.

Post by cancorn Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:13 pm

Hey,

i dont know much about smash bros. or anything like that. but i wanted to contrubute to this little thing.
so i have a few game chartures in mind. you guys can come up with what they actully do if you want.

Cloud strife- ff7 i know not really nintendo but ff started out there....so deal.
his moves might be called something like
cross slash
climhazzard
finishing touch
omini slash

and to counter cloud i would pick setheroth who would have attacks like
The pale horse
The shadow flair
deen is a fairy
super nova

i dont know sounds lame but my reason behind the madness is that from what i do know or can observe from smash bros or like the other smash games is that there are two chartures from a game one hero one villin or something along those lines, cloud and setheroth both have sword (ouuu wow i know) and they have been in everything and they will never get old in my opion heck the actual ff7 game is so long unless you evote your life to it by the time you beat it and have to play it over again to get the story then it doesent get old.

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Post by petrovich112 Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:15 pm

umm raimus the 2.5 sec invincible frames are the last 2.5 secs of the attack its 6 seconds long and does nothing for the first 3.5.
hows that broken this could only ever be used to edgeguard long distance and maybe the first attack in the match.
Also i did Simons A set


Last edited by petrovich112 on Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Plaid02 Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:24 pm

I actually just recently came up with a great idea/perfected it. I would do Lloyd and Kratos from Tales of Symphonia. They already have a bunch of techs so you just put them in the right place. Ok...

Lloyd- Fast and light, sometimes has difficulty killing but has some slower moves.


Neutral b- Demon Fang. Chargable projectile sword slash that travels along the ground. If fired in the air, it goes diagonally downward until it hits the ground. A little bit like an arrow, but not very fast traveling speed. 3-5% uncharged, maybe 15% charged? After lag the same as in Tales of Symphonia, not much.

Up b- Tempest. It works very similarly to tales of symphonia. He spins with his sword, which would do some damage but not much per hit (a little like spin attack but it makes a full circle around him and can't be used on the ground without going up). It wouldn't go very far up, but he would have a pretty high second jump to compensate.

Side b- Sonic Thrust/Supersonic Thrust. Maybe Hurricane Thrust?- A chargable sword thrust directly in front of him. Similar to Marth's neutral b but it just pushes enemies it connects to. Chargable, not retainable. If fully charged it becomes Supersonic Thrust or maybe Hurricane Thrust, with huge push knockback purely sideways. Does not hit upwards at all. Maybe 7% uncharged, 20something when charged.

Down b- Beast. Just like in the game. Not chargable, two hits, extremely powerful (5% for the first hit, 12-13% for the second if it hits directly, it has a big range but gets weaker as it goes out). It would send diagonally upwards at a 35 or so degree angle.


Jab combo- The four hit combo you did in the game. The 3rd and 4th hits are actually Lloyd just hitting twice as he spins to do his attack and hits with both swords. Would do maybe 11% if all hit.

Ftilt- He just slashes one sword a little bit slower and stronger than his jab. Has ok knockback, maybe 9-10% damage and pretty good range.

Utilt- He does a very fast full swipe all around him. Small knockback, maybe 8-9% damage.

Dtilt- A low swipe of his sword, directly in front of him. A little bit more knockback at a high angle, maybe 75 degrees. If used repeatedly he can go back and forth for less lag between swipes. If it hits the very top of a person, it spikes.


Up smash- Slashes with both swords in opposite directions, a little bit like a scissors cut. Pretty good knockback; it has kill capacity at least. Maybe 12% uncharged.

Side smash- Does another scissors cut except this time in front of him. Reasonably fast but not instantaneous. Maybe 13% damage and good knockback, one of his best kill moves because of attack speed to knockback ratio.

Down smash- He slashes one sword in front of him and then the other one behind him. Since he doesn't have to move one sword back and forth, it would have less lag between the hits than Link's or Marth's. The direction of knockback would depend on where it hit you. If you were close to Lloyd, it would send you up, but if you were hit by the tip it would send you sideways.


Nair- He slashes one sword on each side of him at the same time quickly. Not much damage or knockback, but good range, quick activation, and minimal ending lag.

Dair- He does yet another scissors slash, this time beneath him. If you get hit by both swords at the same time (as in, you're in the right position below him) it does a spike, but not a very powerful one. It still has good spiking capabilities, but it's not the same as Ganondorf's or something. If you get hit otherwise by one of his swords starting or following through, it just hits upwards slightly. Each sword does about 8%, so 16 if you're spiked.

Fair- He does his aerial attack from the game. It has a huge range in front of him and quick activation, and it knocks forward at a 15 degree angle without much knockback. Does 9% and is ideal for gimping if you can recover.

Bair- He stabs his swords backwards. Does not activate instantly, and has huge knockback (for an aerial, like Tink's fair) and does 11%. Range is not that good; it's a stab instead of a slash.

Uair- He stabs his swords upward in a triangle shape. Touching them after activation (he holds them for a second) does minimal damage and knockback, but the attack is very powerful when first activated. If you're hit when he's thrusting, maybe 11-12% with good upwards knockback, after maybe 7 and you mostly flinch and move away a little.

Final Smash- Falcon's Crest. If you've played Tales of Symphonia, you know exactly what will happen.

I don't think I forgot a move. Tell me what you guys think. I think I'll do Kratos a little later. I have a better b moveset but I don't know really what to do for tilts and aerials and this took me a long time. Also, I admire you if you read through the whole thing.


EDIT: Could you guys rate this for me?


Last edited by Plaid02 on Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Zephronİ Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:35 pm

I'd choose Vivi, from FF9!

Spoiler:



I say that was all pretty epic. Read please, especially you, Raimu. I think you'll like the effort and creativity I embedded into it.


Last edited by Zephronİ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Kingdom Come Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:46 pm

I coulda sworn this thread contains elemants like this one.....https://smashunderground.darkbb.com/other-games-f3/my-ssb4-roster-t412.htm

but yea mewtwo's weaknesses could be fire (including bombs),swords (because he's not really a hand's on fighter),arrows (piercing him) and lasers would have zero effect on him.

I think he could also wear that armor he wore in the anime and that he would start with it on and then the more he gets hit the more it gets messed up.

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Post by petrovich112 Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:16 pm

kingdom your mewtwo is the most rigged character that would ever exist.
reason physic would be insta kill for any1 near the ledge. Think about it if falcon kick is 48 frames long which is about 0.75 seconds you would have 180 frames of moving the opponent to the side minimum. Rigged!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Plaid02 Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:49 pm

Cool movesets Zeph and Raimu. Kingdom, I'm still not quite sure what yours is but I'm sure it's epic. I completely forgot grabs. Lloyd would just do some weak grabs like Marth or something, nothing fancy. I'm still not quite sure about a one thing on Vivi. How hard does he get knocked back?
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Post by Zephronİ Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:53 pm

He'll be a light person. About as light as Lucas. Same high too Razz

Just imagine Lucas's tipped hair... like a hat XD
It's shaped perfectly for vivi's hat XD

BTW For those who are Final Fantasy impaired... this is what he would look like, and probably would be his opening sequence.

New twist on an old Question. Jisukchoff9vivi20040518rm2
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Post by Plaid02 Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:57 pm

I'm noticing a little pattern... We both made them with some moves/designs based on our mains. I tried to copy off other people too, like Marth and even Bowser for the bair; that's where I got the idea. Anyway, anyone comments on Lloyd? Where's Smashman when you need him? I looked in Kingdom's thread and he said we needed Lloyd. I saw that after I made it, for the record.
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Post by Zephronİ Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:21 am

Plaid02 wrote:I'm noticing a little pattern... We both made them with some moves/designs based on our mains. I tried to copy off other people too, like Marth and even Bowser for the bair; that's where I got the idea. Anyway, anyone comments on Lloyd? Where's Smashman when you need him? I looked in Kingdom's thread and he said we needed Lloyd. I saw that after I made it, for the record.

It's pretty good. I mean, of course it's habit to make people like our mains, but to be honest there aren't too many things alike with Lucas ad Vivi.

Vivi has only one projectile, and Lucas has three.... Then Vivi is slower and has pitiful jumps where Lucas's are really good.

And Vivi comboes differently, and his side b is very interesting to me...

I wasn't defending myself, or blaming you, just wanted to make that distinction.

BTW we obviously like our mains for their game and playstyle so duh we're going to make moves that suit us as well, but are different.
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Post by Raimu Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:44 pm

Oh, shoot, I forgot a set of grabs for mine!
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Post by PhailWhale Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:07 pm

Plaid02 wrote:
I actually just recently came up with a great idea/perfected it. I would do Lloyd and Kratos from Tales of Symphonia. They already have a bunch of techs so you just put them in the right place. Ok...

Lloyd- Fast and light, sometimes has difficulty killing but has some slower moves.


Neutral b- Demon Fang. Chargable projectile sword slash that travels along the ground. If fired in the air, it goes diagonally downward until it hits the ground. A little bit like an arrow, but not very fast traveling speed. 3-5% uncharged, maybe 15% charged? After lag the same as in Tales of Symphonia, not much.

Up b- Tempest. It works very similarly to tales of symphonia. He spins with his sword, which would do some damage but not much per hit (a little like spin attack but it makes a full circle around him and can't be used on the ground without going up). It wouldn't go very far up, but he would have a pretty high second jump to compensate.

Side b- Sonic Thrust/Supersonic Thrust. Maybe Hurricane Thrust?- A chargable sword thrust directly in front of him. Similar to Marth's neutral b but it just pushes enemies it connects to. Chargable, not retainable. If fully charged it becomes Supersonic Thrust or maybe Hurricane Thrust, with huge push knockback purely sideways. Does not hit upwards at all. Maybe 7% uncharged, 20something when charged.

Down b- Beast. Just like in the game. Not chargable, two hits, extremely powerful (5% for the first hit, 12-13% for the second if it hits directly, it has a big range but gets weaker as it goes out). It would send diagonally upwards at a 35 or so degree angle.


Jab combo- The four hit combo you did in the game. The 3rd and 4th hits are actually Lloyd just hitting twice as he spins to do his attack and hits with both swords. Would do maybe 11% if all hit.

Ftilt- He just slashes one sword a little bit slower and stronger than his jab. Has ok knockback, maybe 9-10% damage and pretty good range.

Utilt- He does a very fast full swipe all around him. Small knockback, maybe 8-9% damage.

Dtilt- A low swipe of his sword, directly in front of him. A little bit more knockback at a high angle, maybe 75 degrees. If used repeatedly he can go back and forth for less lag between swipes. If it hits the very top of a person, it spikes.


Up smash- Slashes with both swords in opposite directions, a little bit like a scissors cut. Pretty good knockback; it has kill capacity at least. Maybe 12% uncharged.

Side smash- Does another scissors cut except this time in front of him. Reasonably fast but not instantaneous. Maybe 13% damage and good knockback, one of his best kill moves because of attack speed to knockback ratio.

Down smash- He slashes one sword in front of him and then the other one behind him. Since he doesn't have to move one sword back and forth, it would have less lag between the hits than Link's or Marth's. The direction of knockback would depend on where it hit you. If you were close to Lloyd, it would send you up, but if you were hit by the tip it would send you sideways.


Nair- He slashes one sword on each side of him at the same time quickly. Not much damage or knockback, but good range, quick activation, and minimal ending lag.

Dair- He does yet another scissors slash, this time beneath him. If you get hit by both swords at the same time (as in, you're in the right position below him) it does a spike, but not a very powerful one. It still has good spiking capabilities, but it's not the same as Ganondorf's or something. If you get hit otherwise by one of his swords starting or following through, it just hits upwards slightly. Each sword does about 8%, so 16 if you're spiked.

Fair- He does his aerial attack from the game. It has a huge range in front of him and quick activation, and it knocks forward at a 15 degree angle without much knockback. Does 9% and is ideal for gimping if you can recover.

Bair- He stabs his swords backwards. Does not activate instantly, and has huge knockback (for an aerial, like Tink's fair) and does 11%. Range is not that good; it's a stab instead of a slash.

Uair- He stabs his swords upward in a triangle shape. Touching them after activation (he holds them for a second) does minimal damage and knockback, but the attack is very powerful when first activated. If you're hit when he's thrusting, maybe 11-12% with good upwards knockback, after maybe 7 and you mostly flinch and move away a little.

Final Smash- Falcon's Crest. If you've played Tales of Symphonia, you know exactly what will happen.

I don't think I forgot a move. Tell me what you guys think. I think I'll do Kratos a little later. I have a better b moveset but I don't know really what to do for tilts and aerials and this took me a long time. Also, I admire you if you read through the whole thing.


EDIT: Could you guys rate this for me?

Nice!The recovery would be broken tho :/ .
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Post by Plaid02 Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:16 pm

How would the recovery be broken?
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Post by PhailWhale Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:49 pm

If you compare it with the game,he goes like over the whole zone.I mean he would get to the age while being offscreen lol. But Smash bros does alot of stupid things..Link,as excample,has different recoveries if you compare it with the other smash bros series.
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Post by SmAsHman Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:42 pm

WOOOO TALES OF SYMPHONIA IS THE BEST!!!!!

did u get the sequal for the wii? did u ever play the alternate ending with Zelos?

Anyways, my suggestion for who would best fit into brawl, and who in my opinion, really should have been in there, and never gets enough credit as as "shouldve been in brawl" guy is.....

none other than MEGA MAN!!!!

I suppose he might be a little like samus, but think about it. his moves could each be something that he gets from beating one of the bossses.
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Post by Plaid02 Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:53 pm

Masutâ Hando wrote:If you compare it with the game,he goes like over the whole zone.I mean he would get to the age while being offscreen lol.
I think you're thinking of Psi Tempest; he doesn't go very high with Tempest. Anyway, time for the (I'm sure) much awaited... Kratos!

He's going to be slower and stronger than Lloyd, a little like the difference between Roy and Marth in melee. On second thought, I'm making them pretty different. For his costume changes he would be able to wear the Cruxis angel costume (yes!) and maybe change weapons for his other costumes or maybe just color scheme (baseball bat as sword?). To mix it up a little I think I would give Kratos his wings. He would get four jumps, and it would also make his dash speed pretty fast, but otherwise he just walks (maybe without his wings out? I dunno).



Neutral b- Demon Fang. Exactly like Lloyd's, maybe a tiny bit stronger and a tiny bit slower.

Side b- Lightning blade. Kinda similar to Lloyd's sonic thrust, but given a little twist. It's also chargable, but the knockback would go straight up if you get hit by the lightning. The lightning would appear only if the thrust connects, but could hit people that it touches. It would be pretty painful. At full charge it would become Super Lightning Blade. The lightning is a little bigger, comes from a little higher, and a wind bit is added in.

Up b- Light spear. Exactly like Light spear in the game. He goes down quickly at the end of the attack with his sword out, a little bit like Aether. If used on the ground it becomes Light Spear Cannon, which adds an upwards thrust from below on the ground to it. This part would have pretty good knockback and add another 4% or so, but it leaves him vulnerable since he holds the pose for a second.

Down b- Hell Pyre. If used on the ground it's exactly like in the game. He does a jumping uppercut then hits you with a fireball, which explodes on contact with the ground. The uppercut would do 4%, the fireball 5-6%, then another 5-6% when it explodes. The uppercut has no knockback except it puts you in the air a little and stuns you, the fireball knocks you diagonally downwards (the way it was fired, except a little farther backwards so you don't stay completely caught under it if Kratos uses it while you're off edge) and the explosion gives you a tiny bit of backwards knockback. If Kratos does it in the air, he skips the uppercut. This move cancels his jumps and leaves him very vulnerable, so be careful using it. Using it by the edge could have gimp potential.

I don't actually feel like doing the rest now, but I'll post updates later. As in, just edit this one.
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Post by PhailWhale Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:09 am

[quote="Plaid02"]
Masutâ Hando wrote:If you compare it with the game,he goes like over the whole zone.I mean he would get to the age while being offscreen lol.
Plaid02 wrote:I think you're thinking of Psi Tempest; he doesn't go very high with Tempest.

he doesn't go very far with psi tempest =.=
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Post by Plaid02 Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:31 pm

No, Psi Tempest is the upgraded version of Tempest where he goes all the way across the screen. Tempest isn't very high. Also, be careful quoting me because it looks like you copied some of my html but not all for my table and screwed the site up.
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Post by petrovich112 Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:49 pm

Anyone have comments on my complete moveset for simon perhaps?
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