Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Go down

Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by LittleV on Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:40 am

After using moves several times, they get weaker.
They Decay.
But there are rumors of moves getting weaker depending on:
1. Connecting.
2. Hitting nothing.
3. Over time.

I want to clear up these rumors.
I think it would be knowledgable here. Smile
From SWF.

-An attack's power decreases on a curve after each successive use, first dropping sharply, then slowly bottoming out to a bit less than half the attack's max power after about 8 uses. You recharge your moves by using different attacks. It doesn't matter if you spam 1 attack, it will still recharge your other previously used attacks.

-Attacks that are bottomed out will recharge faster than attacks near max power. For example, if you use attack A for the first time, then a different attack, then A again, the second A will be weaker. However, if you weaken attack A to its minimum power, then use a different attack, then A again, the second A will be a bit stronger.

-The game remembers a lot of your attacks. I'm not sure if there's a threshold for the number of other moves you need to do before it forgets about a worn out attack and resets it (I know it remembers at least 12). I mean, I did 23% with Ike's Fsmash, did 8 other attacks, and my next Fsmash did 21%. It seems a max power attack will maintain its power with about 10 other attacks between each use, though.

-When you die, your power levels get reset. Zelda/PT can also reset their power through switching(!). Your power levels are not increased by waiting, attacking thin air, attacking someone who is blocking, getting attacked yourself, or switching your attacks to someone else (thus, attacking marth then sheik then marth with one attack will weaken it just as much as using it on marth 3 times).

-All attacks refresh other attacks equally. If you weaken attack X through repeated use, 10 weak jabs will recharge it just as much as 10 fully charged smashes. Different hits of A combos count as seperate attacks, as do seperate throws and throw punches(!). However, repeated hits of infinite punches (like sheik, fox, etc) and drill attacks (mario's Dair) do not count as seperate. Projectiles are weird, too: only the first needle in Sheik's needle storm counts.

-Attacking someone who's countering doesn't count. It counts for the counterer, though, so each successive counter will be weaker, regardless of the attack they're countering.

-Attacking an object DOES count. For example, attacking wario's bike, any destructible things like the walls in MGS land or Luigi's mansion, etc.

-There's a tiny bit of randomization in the damages

- damage doesn't decrease in training mode. This confused me for a while.

I'm just assuming knockback is proportional to damage here, as damage was a lot easier to measure. I used Ike for my tests, and I reset him (killed him) at each line break.
avatar
LittleV
Smash Novice

Number of posts : 18
Age : 26
Brawl: : 0602 5936 6900

Smash Points/Trophies
Smash Points: 0

View user profile http://Onlinebrawlcommunity.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by LittleV on Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:41 am

nuuuuuumbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers

dt=downtilt, fs=fsmash, na=nair etc

fs23, 19, 18, 16, 15, 13, 12, 11, 11, 10, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 11, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10...

dt14, 13, 11, 10, 10, 8, 8, 7, 7, 6, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 6, 6, 7, 6, 6, 7, 6, 7

Full charge B 38, 34, 29, 27, 25, 22, 20, 19, 17, 17, 18, grab punchx20, charge B 38, gpx10, cB 36, gpx15, cB39

Dtilt:14 Ftilt:16 Fsmash:23 Dsmash:14
dt13 ft13 fs21 ds12
dt12 ft14 fs19 ds12 <-went through this cycle twice more but the numbers bottomed out here

dt14, ft16, fs23, ds14, ut12, na10
dt13, ft14, fs21, ds12, ut12, na8
dt13, ft14, fs21, ds12, ut11, na8
dt14, ft14, fs21, ds12, ut11, na9
dt13, ft14, fs21, ds12, ut11, na8

dt14, ft16, 13, 13, 11, 9
dt13, ft10, 9, 8, 8, 8
dt13, ft9, 9, 8, 8, 8
dt13, ft9, 9, 8, 8, 8
dt13, ft9, 9, 8, 8, 8, 7, 8, dt13, ft9, dt13, ft9, dt12, ft11, dt11, ft11, dt10, ft12, dt10, ft12, dt10, ft12, dt10

fs23, ft15, 14, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8
fs21, ft8, 8, 9, 8, 7, 8, 7
fs22, ft8, 8, 9, 8, 7, 8, 7
fs22, ft8, 8, 9, 8, 7, 8, 7
fs22, 19, 18, ft11, fs16, ft10, 11, fs16, ft12, 10, fs16

fs23, ftx9, fs23

AAA combo 4/5/7, 3/5/6, 3/4/6, 3/4/6
spam first hit till it only does 2 or 1 %
AAA combo 1/6/7
avatar
LittleV
Smash Novice

Number of posts : 18
Age : 26
Brawl: : 0602 5936 6900

Smash Points/Trophies
Smash Points: 0

View user profile http://Onlinebrawlcommunity.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by Rei on Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:00 am

Good read LittleV Surprised

I never really knew how in depth this was xD.

Rei
Head Honcho
Head Honcho

Number of posts : 1585
Age : 27
Brawl: : 4811-6624-7457

Smash Points/Trophies
Smash Points: 10

View user profile https://www.youtube.com/Kageyoshi6

Back to top Go down

Re: Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by LittleV on Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:12 am

...Sticky...?
Ahhah, XD.
avatar
LittleV
Smash Novice

Number of posts : 18
Age : 26
Brawl: : 0602 5936 6900

Smash Points/Trophies
Smash Points: 0

View user profile http://Onlinebrawlcommunity.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by zachisasian on Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:27 pm

brawl just counts your last 9 attacks. you might want to add that somewhere.

_________________
O o
/¯________________________
|
IMMA FIRIN' MAH LAZOR!!!
\_¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
avatar
zachisasian
Global Moderator
Global Moderator

Number of posts : 717
Age : 25

Smash Points/Trophies
Smash Points: 55

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by Zephron© on Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:31 pm

Where did you find that out zach?

_________________



"Politics are important. If you aren't Liberal by age 18, you're heartless. And if you aren't Conservative by age 30, you're an idiot."-My SS teacher
avatar
Zephron©
PK Knight
PK Knight

Number of posts : 1615
Age : 25
Brawl: : 1934-2362-2797

Smash Points/Trophies
Smash Points: 75

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by zachisasian on Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:32 pm

i'm smart. laugh

_________________
O o
/¯________________________
|
IMMA FIRIN' MAH LAZOR!!!
\_¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
avatar
zachisasian
Global Moderator
Global Moderator

Number of posts : 717
Age : 25

Smash Points/Trophies
Smash Points: 55

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by Rei on Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:39 pm

zachisasian wrote:brawl just counts your last 9 attacks. you might want to add that somewhere.

Yeah, I knew this already lol. Zach is too smart though =o.

Rei
Head Honcho
Head Honcho

Number of posts : 1585
Age : 27
Brawl: : 4811-6624-7457

Smash Points/Trophies
Smash Points: 10

View user profile https://www.youtube.com/Kageyoshi6

Back to top Go down

Re: Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by GuruKid on Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:19 pm

Thanks for putting this up, LittleV; always great to refresh your memory on this kind of stuff.

LittleV wrote:Zelda/PT can also reset their power through switching(!).

Just another reason why PT is awesome. Smile

_________________
avatar
GuruKid
Head Honcho
Head Honcho

Number of posts : 383
Age : 29

Smash Points/Trophies
Smash Points: 15

View user profile http://smashunderground.darkbb.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by Plaid02 on Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:52 pm

I never thought this made much of a difference. It's never really stopped any spamming I've seen, and doesn't decrease power enough to make spamming lose in a cost/benefit analysis for noobs. Just my opinion, but I don't ever pay attention to stale moves. I didn't look at the numbers carefully, but it only seemed to do 4% difference max.
avatar
Plaid02
Triforce Knight
Triforce Knight

Number of posts : 228
Age : 25
Brawl: : 5198 2125 7297

Smash Points/Trophies
Smash Points: 0

View user profile http://athena.edenpr.org/~09harrisb

Back to top Go down

Re: Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by LittleV on Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:07 pm

It makes all of the difference.
Being able to kill at low percents is what you should be aiming for, using a common move that's lost it's power may make it hard to kill.

These numbers?
For show.
That's why there's deep analysis, regardless if you(general) care what this says, y'know?

What you should remember is that stuff like switching poke'mon, and changing into Sheik from Zelda, may be the refresh you need.

Regardless, it's always good to be full of knowledge.
avatar
LittleV
Smash Novice

Number of posts : 18
Age : 26
Brawl: : 0602 5936 6900

Smash Points/Trophies
Smash Points: 0

View user profile http://Onlinebrawlcommunity.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by Kingdom Come on Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:37 pm

Thanks for posting this.

I have had some questions in the past about this and they have all been answered thx!

Kingdom Come
Smash Veteran

Number of posts : 770
Age : 25

Smash Points/Trophies
Smash Points: 5

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Rules on Stale/Move/Decay

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum